Interview with Thomas Liebert

Can you still remember your very first project?

Yes, that was the Axel Springer printing plant administration building in Leipzig. It was a very large project right after the fall of the Berlin Wall, but I didn’t plan it as a freelancer; rather, I worked on it as a student for a company in Munich, where I was also studying. It was Axel Springer’s first large-scale printing plant, which was opened at the time by Helmut Kohl. So I really hit the ground running with my very first project.

Was there something like a key project for the development of your company? 

Yes, though it was less a project and more of a business decision. It was the move back to the metropolis of Berlin. I had never lost touch with my contacts there, and that paid off. We started small in Hüfingen and grew slowly at first, since it’s harder to recruit staff in the Black Forest. Nevertheless, after about four years, with 20 employees, we were one of the largest firms within a radius of about 100 kilometers. The projects grew steadily, and more and more inquiries came in from all over Germany—more than our team could handle on its own. That’s how the decision to open a branch in Berlin came about—primarily to expand my team. Things really took off with the Berlin location. Along with the new employees came new contracts, such as the third-party investment—essentially the backbone of Berlin Airport—and our part of the project went smoothly; we met both the budget and the deadlines! (laughs).

Is it still the case that you recruit many employees through the Berlin office or are able to address staffing shortages with Berlin-based employees?

Yes, we’ve grown into a cohesive office. We continue to attract many employees through the Berlin office. We see ourselves as a unified office that handles projects across Germany, not as individual profit centers. And 90% of these projects are in Berlin, Düsseldorf, Munich, Hamburg, Basel, Stuttgart, or Frankfurt—not just at the locations of our branches. We are currently establishing our next office in Hamburg, as we have generated a large number of projects there and have built a reputation for ourselves—so things remain exciting.

Which project has been the biggest challenge for you over the past 25 years?

I think it was the Charité in Berlin—Europe’s largest university hospital. We hadn’t designed a hospital before. The public client required proof of experience with several similar projects, which we naturally didn’t have. The commissioned architect and general planner searched the Berlin market for a suitable engineering firm. During his search for a competent firm in Berlin, two companies independently recommended us, saying, “If anyone can do it, it’s Ingenieurbüro Liebert.” By partnering with a firm that had hospital experience, we met all the requirements and secured the contract for a 70-million-euro TGA project within 14 days. That was truly a major challenge (smiles).

Was the challenge the size of the project, or was it the specific requirements? 

Both. We equipped 16 new operating rooms for the first time. Although I’ve never been afraid of a hospital. To me, a hospital wasn’t a technically complex building—except for the examination and operating rooms (smiles)—and that ultimately proved to be true. Of course, except for the operating rooms—those are more complex—but once you’ve done one, it’s no longer a major challenge. For me, the pharmaceutical industry is much more complicated. The hygiene standards there are many times higher. Other challenges were the scale and speed of the project, and initially, the critical voices directed at us. After just one month, we were able to convince our critics.

Have you ever turned down projects? If so, why? 

Yes, unfortunately we’ve had to turn down projects from time to time. Last year, we were able to work almost exclusively for our regular clients, and this year we’ve even had to turn down individual projects from our regular clients because our order books are full. As soon as we can no longer deliver our usual quality, we’d rather turn them down. I’ve already had to turn down over 15 projects this year. That hurts as an entrepreneur. But we’re working on it—the opening of our new branch in Hamburg has also created attractive new jobs in a prime location right on the Elbe, etc.

As we all know, even engineers don’t get everything right the first time. Do you have an anecdote to share with us?

We actually (knocks on wood) haven’t botched a single project yet. Of course, there are always new challenges—with every project. Each project is one-of-a-kind, individually tailored like a custom suit for our clients. Naturally, things don’t always go smoothly; that’s just the nature of the business. Our motto is to work in a solution-oriented way and to own up to our mistakes; that’s the only way to correct them. Open communication and transparency have always led to our clients hiring us again.

Can you walk through a building normally without analyzing its condition?

(smiles) I actually can’t walk through a building without looking at it. That’s how I get to know the architect’s concept and approach. Architecture is also a priority for us, not just functionality and technology. Today, technology plays a very significant role in a planning team, including financially. The share of building services costs can now account for up to 30–40% of the total investment costs. Architects and engineers must work together as equals. Go into a building and look at the ceiling. Sometimes you wonder, what does it look like in here? As little technology as possible should be visible. Architects go to great lengths to design a building harmoniously. This must not be ruined by uncoordinated technology. Our shared goal must be that everything you see and feel in a building is perfect.

Why do so many large construction projects go off the rails?

Many of the failed projects you read about are public projects. Decisions are made politically, often without a technical background. Budgets are set almost arbitrarily—without consulting specialist planners. The projects are then put out to public tender with defined, unrealistic budgets. And just a few months after the contract is awarded, news of significant cost overruns emerges. Everyone is familiar with this flawed approach, but it is handled this way nonetheless because otherwise no political decision would be made. If a private-sector project proceeds this way, then the planner was not the right choice, because they addressed too late what the client actually wants and what budget they actually have. In the end, none of the projects we have ever undertaken were ever settled with a budget that the client was not aware of.

What do you consider to be humanity’s greatest engineering achievement? 

In my opinion, the landing of the Mars probe in 2014 was a magnificent engineering feat. Engineers developed a spacecraft—a probe—that powered itself using solar panels and flew for 10 years without any intervention or control from the ground. And after 10 years, it lands on Mars, deploys its solar panels as planned, and begins its mission—just imagine that. Sending a machine somewhere where you don’t know the stratosphere or the environmental conditions, and it lands precisely, on time, at the spot you determined ten years ago. I think that’s a magnificent engineering achievement.

Do you believe in perpetual progress? Do you wish for it?

Progress cannot be stopped; that is definitely true, and it’s a good thing. Without further developments, without progress, we would stand still. And standing still is regression. Every new invention can be used for good or for ill. It is always up to us. But if we were to stop driving development forward, our resources would run out. We must generate progress—and quickly. That said, progress has nothing to do with a timeline. Progress means optimizing processes and utilizing the inexhaustible and permanently available energy resources that the Earth offers. For this, we need the Earth, the sun, light, and water. Though I’m not an advocate of wind energy. In my opinion, meaningful resources must always be 100% available. For example, a river is always available, and so is the hydroelectric power plant. I think tidal power plants are brilliant—the tides are always there. The goal is to combine different resources in a time-dependent way. For me, that is the solution for the next generation. We should only support technologies that are still in development. I am critical of government funding for technologies that are already working.

It will probably take a few more years, but the fossil fuel era does seem to be drawing to a close. What would your professional “Plan B” look like?

I don’t believe the fossil fuel era is coming to an end. Their share will continue to shrink, but every building and every person will still need fossil fuels. We simply don’t have enough forests, sun, or wind to replace fossil fuels 100%. But we must radically reduce consumption and use fossil fuels very sparingly. And that is precisely our goal. We will never be able to meet 100% of our energy needs with renewables. There are simply too many people and too much industry in the world for that. This will keep us busy for generations to come. We must ensure today that future generations can still rely on the share of fossil fuels they urgently need.

What three things would a supply expert take to a desert island?

First of all, my family, of course. Because we’re only strong together—that’s just how it is. Then a knife for hunting. No, I can’t hunt, but if you’re hungry, you’ll somehow catch a fish or a rabbit (smiles), and nature provides everything else.

What was the last book you read? Your favorite book?

I have very little time to read books. When I read, I want to escape the real world. Preferably with a thrilling mystery novel on vacation at the beach—that relaxes me. 

Are you more of a creative type or a razor-sharp analyst? 

Both. To develop visions, you have to be creative and also be able to think outside the box. But you also have to analyze your visions and assess how feasible they are. I think both are necessary. You have to dare to do something new. That’s how I run my company: every new project is a new challenge. There are always newly defined goals and newly set tasks. 

The pressure weighing on the business elite is always a major topic. Many top executives burn out early or turn to medication and alcohol. How do you manage to withstand the pressure? 

The pressure has to remain positive. If you enjoy your work, if you can use the freedom it offers and develop visions, then the pressure isn’t negative. Of course, there’s sometimes external pressure, such as deadlines, but generally these things can be discussed with the client. I think if the pressure is so great that you can’t sleep at night, then you’re in the wrong job. That applies to every industry. 

As a managing director, you sometimes use the image of a “Mustang galloping at top speed across the prairie with its herd.” How do you unwind in the evenings? Do you still have free time? 

Yes, and that’s also very important. I need free time to relax. When, after a positively stressful day, I sit on the terrace or in front of the fireplace with my wife in the evening, drink a nice glass of wine, and can talk to her about everyday things, that’s relaxation for me. Or when I come home, open the door, and my daughter runs toward me with open arms. Within two minutes, I feel completely at home. Of course, I don’t always have as much time with my family as I’d like. But I try to make the most of my time, for example at car races or when skiing with family and friends in the Alps. 

Your projects are designed to be environmentally friendly and resource-efficient. What do you do in your personal life to help the environment? 

Of course, my house isn’t heated with oil or gas—I couldn’t justify that. We cover our heating energy needs using geothermal energy from well water, which is both environmentally friendly and resource-efficient. We’ve been living in our house for ten years now, and it’s warm every winter (smiles). 

They say behind every successful person stands a strong partner. Who stands behind you? 

A strong partner is someone who keeps you grounded, who brings you back down to earth. Who tells you the truth. And who supports you. For me, that’s clearly my wife. She always brings me back down to earth, even when I’m flying too high—for example, during a new major project (laughs). I have many great colleagues with whom I enjoy exchanging ideas, no question. But my wife is the one standing behind me. And I’m very happy about that. 

How do you manage to keep your employees motivated every day? 

Do you motivate employees with a pat on the back or a raise? You can’t keep an employee with money; money is secondary. We pay well, but also based on performance. It’s much more important for an employee to feel comfortable and be able to enjoy certain freedoms. They spend more hours in the office than at home. That’s why treating each other with respect is just as important to me as team-building activities. When our customers praise us, we pass that praise on to the employees. When a project goes well, we praise the employees. Even during the hiring process, we assess whether the applicant’s personality fits the team—even before considering professional qualifications. Over the years, I’ve learned to judge this quite quickly; I trust my gut feeling. We really are one big family, and we nurture this family atmosphere so that everyone feels comfortable in their environment. An employee must identify with their workplace. Ninety motivated employees have an enormous impact on our public image. They are ambassadors for the company. And our customers sense that—everyone who comes into contact with us does.

Who or what motivates you?

My motivation is the feedback from our customers. When I walk through a building after a project is completed and think, “This is exactly how it should be”—the architecture fits, the technology is invisible, you only feel it positively, you don’t hear it, it’s simply there, invisible. Or the functioning processes in an industrial project. For example, during the production of a pharmaceutical product—from the delivery of the raw material to the site in Germany to the arrival of the finished, filled syringes in America—the temperature had to remain between 10 degrees and a maximum of 10.5 degrees. That was a challenge. And seeing that it works—that’s what inspires me the most.

How do you manage to have multi-million-dollar budgets entrusted to you? 

We have often proven that we can handle budget planning. The client’s requirements are clear, the budget is set, and we discuss with the client how to align these two as closely as possible. Our clients appreciate that. We stick to the defined budget and try to use it as economically as possible for our client to achieve their goal, and we’ve proven that time and again. All my employees are instructed to plan as they would for their own building. You can call any of our clients—they’ll all recommend us. That’s how we get our new clients, who quickly become regulars.

If you had to describe in a few sentences why someone should award a contract to you and not your competitors, what would your answer be?

I think what speaks for us is our open and honest approach to the client. This way of working is quite unique. Firms of our size are usually no longer owner-managed, meaning there are strict hierarchies and consequently long decision-making processes. Our teams, each consisting of a project manager and up to 15 specialist planners, act quickly and flexibly without hierarchies and can make decisions. Another key factor is the many discussions and brainstorming sessions we have with the client at the start of a project. We define the goals, discuss the risks and risk tolerance, and develop a Plan B for potential retrofitting. We question decisions and often involve other departments in these discussions, such as facility management. This ensures that all requirements are clear. We have competent staff who lead these discussions. And this groundwork pays off. All major issues are resolved—this is how a project runs smoothly. Let me give you an example: Theoretically, a printing plant requires a cooling capacity of 2 MW. Based on our experience with the process structure of a printing press, we know that approximately 70% of that capacity is sufficient. So we recommend installing the lower capacity, but design everything so that an upgrade could be done without any problems—though this has never been necessary. This is how we work within budget.

What does the collaboration look like in practice during the project phase?

During the project, client meetings are held weekly or every two weeks. Participants include the project manager or the specialist planner. Since all fundamental points have already been clarified with all decision-makers, these meetings are effective and results-oriented—exactly in line with the client’s interests. A prime example of our approach is our project with Renzo Piano, which addresses precisely these issues: Budget compliance, the gap between the client’s wishes and the allocated budget. We’ve been holding discussion rounds for six weeks, but we’ll continue until it’s clear what is actually desired and where the budget will definitely be allocated. Of course, we propose solutions to achieve the goal, even if the budget is insufficient. Should the tenant or buyer wish to make upgrades later, they can do so very easily. Flexible, forward-thinking planning that takes all eventualities into account—before the project begins—that is our philosophy. Our clients value this thorough initial phase because they know it saves them a lot of money, time, and hassle.